Opened 5 years ago

Closed 3 years ago

Last modified 3 years ago

#2817 closed defect (fixed)

[PATCH] Random map "Survival of the fittest" improvements/fixes

Reported by: Erik Johansson Owned by:
Priority: Should Have Milestone: Alpha 21
Component: Maps Keywords: patch
Cc: Patch:

Description (last modified by elexis)

TLDR: read the bold text in the description and comment:11

The idea with the map, as far as I understand it, is to use one female citizen (blocked off from your main area by terrain) to gather resources, while you you use your buildings/citizen soldiers in your main area to defend against waves of enemies. When I tested it it didn't work as there were no place for the female citizen to deliver her resources to + she was outside of the players territory so she couldn't build one either.

  • Update description to reflect the initial need to gather treasures rather than resources in the normal way.
  • 15 minutes until the first wave is too much imho. I mean depending on how many of the treasures you manage to get you might be able to get to phase 2 and start building and gathering etc in the middle. But most of those first fifteen minutes are still just waiting, so it might be more interesting with a tiny wave sooner.
  • I would prefer more varied waves. As it is now it's just the same kind of units, which can get a bit boring.
  • What definitely should exist is some kind of progression of difficulty. As it is now you can have a very easy time -- until the elephants come. Just garrison your units in the civic center or any towers you have built and the wave is survived easily. Then all of a sudden 10 or so elephants arrive and you're doomed =) The second time I played I at least was aware that they might come at some point, but it felt as if they came ten minutes earlier that time, so I still wasn't prepared. That's tied together with the previous point to some extent -- if the groups are more varied you'll have to vary your strategy earlier + you'll be aware that there will be elephants (and possibly siege weapons as well, but again, have only played the map properly two times and the elephants got me both times so I haven't been able to survive long enough to be able to tell).

Attachments (1)

2817.diff (663 bytes) - added by stanislas69 4 years ago.
Attached patch makes first wave arrive at 10 mins instead of fifteen, as it is approximatively the time you get the first attack into a MP game

Download all attachments as: .zip

Change History (19)

comment:1 Changed 5 years ago by serveurix

Treasures are supposed to appear in the central area, gathering the treasures gives you the resources you need. You are not supposed to build in the central area before phase II.

comment:2 Changed 5 years ago by Erik Johansson

:P That should be stated, the description just says "to gather resources", nothing about treasures :P So the description should be updated in that case.

comment:3 Changed 5 years ago by Itms

Oh, I just updated the translations for string freeze and so on, so I'm a bit reluctant about fixing that now :(

feneur, I'm not sure the description has to be updated, I never thought I'd have to gather resources the usual way when reading the description. Is your modification request really strong? :)

comment:4 Changed 5 years ago by Itms

Milestone: Alpha 17Alpha 18

comment:5 Changed 5 years ago by Erik Johansson

Description: modified (diff)
Summary: Random map "Survival of the fittest" doesn't work due to territoriesRandom map "Survival of the fittest" improvements/fixes

As long as it's mentioned in the release announcement I think it's fine. The description does after all say "gather resources" though (which means that you really need to know beforehand that there are treasures, otherwise you're at a serious disadvantage if playing against others who already know that), so it should be updated eventually.

I'll change the ticket to be more general as the territories after all wasn't the problem, but after actually playtesting it properly I found some other things which can be improved.

comment:6 Changed 5 years ago by Itms

In 16310:

Update the Survival of the Fittest map description for more clarity. Refs #2817

comment:7 Changed 5 years ago by Itms

Description: modified (diff)
Milestone: Alpha 18Alpha 19

comment:8 Changed 5 years ago by mimo

Concerning the map description, what is the problem with the AI ? iirc it is far from optimized for this map, but it works.

comment:9 Changed 5 years ago by historic_bruno

Milestone: Alpha 19Backlog
Owner: O.Davoodi deleted

comment:10 Changed 4 years ago by stanislas69

Component: UI & SimulationMaps
Keywords: review patch added
Milestone: BacklogAlpha 20
Owner: set to stanislas69
Status: newassigned
Summary: Random map "Survival of the fittest" improvements/fixes[PATCH] Random map "Survival of the fittest" improvements/fixes

Changed 4 years ago by stanislas69

Attachment: 2817.diff added

Attached patch makes first wave arrive at 10 mins instead of fifteen, as it is approximatively the time you get the first attack into a MP game

comment:11 Changed 4 years ago by elexis

Also some other things I noticed in multiple a18 matches:

  • once a player can survive one wave, he can survive all waves, since the strength of the waves doesn't increase, resulting in an infinite game.
    • elephants shouldn't be spawned by luck but for all players on some given turns (maybe even spawn the same unit types for all players?)
  • the women in the middle is the only source to get wood (treasures). enemies will kill that woman with ranged units, towers or other females. This can be solved by setting ceasefiretime to 90 minutes. Players can't attack their bases anyway since it is on a mountain which can't be climbed. A ceasefire hint should be added in red to the map description.
  • once a player is defeated, there were some errors
  • in the beginning the observer chat shows up as white, but later (after diplomacy change?) it becomes black (which is the gaia color)
  • often some players have territory at the bottom and thus can build structures down there to create more units and gather resources. The territory should actually stop at the mountain (to be done in a different ticket).

comment:12 in reply to:  11 Changed 4 years ago by leper

Replying to elexis:

  • elephants shouldn't be spawned by luck but for all players on some given turns (maybe even spawn the same unit types for all players?)

We should spawn the exact same for each player (mostly to make it fair).

  • the women in the middle is the only source to get wood (treasures). enemies will kill that woman with ranged units, towers or other females. This can be solved by setting ceasefiretime to 90 minutes. Players can't attack their bases anyway since it is on a mountain which can't be climbed. A ceasefire hint should be added in red to the map description.

Fixing the diplomacy between players might be nicer, though that might require a victory condition for only one player.

Also note #3102 which has some changes, and possibly fixes some of the above issues already.

comment:13 Changed 4 years ago by elexis

Description: modified (diff)
Keywords: simple added; review removed

The patch should at least have the progression of difficulty, spawn the same waves for all players and fix the errors.

A trigger script to fix the diplomacy between players would be very appreciated. The waves should become so strong that every player will die (hence we will have a winner).

comment:14 Changed 4 years ago by elexis

Milestone: Alpha 20Backlog

Backlogging due to lack of progress.

comment:15 Changed 3 years ago by elexis

Refs r18209 and #3102

comment:16 Changed 3 years ago by sanderd17

r18209 makes some things harder:

  • Shorter time for the first wave (random between 5 and 15 minutes); was always 15 minutes before
  • Shorter time between waves (random between 2 and 3 minutes); was always 3 minutes before
  • A countdown timer is added for the first wave, but the subsequent waves come as surprises (so players may be building something at that moment).
  • Siege engines are included in the attacking units to require players to come out of their buildings.
  • Waves are up to 33% bigger.

comment:17 Changed 3 years ago by stanislas69

Owner: stanislas69 deleted
Status: assignednew

comment:18 Changed 3 years ago by elexis

Keywords: simple removed
Milestone: BacklogAlpha 21
Priority: Must HaveShould Have
Resolution: fixed
Status: newclosed

Closing as fixed by r18209 (difficulty & variety). Exponential and more frequent attacker waves are proposed in #3102 / ​https://github.com/elexis1/0ad/tree/survival.

Last edited 3 years ago by elexis (previous) (diff)
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